Live to air show on Channel 9s Midday show - Monday February 16th 1998.
Kerri-Anne Kennerley (KK) - Presenter
John Pasquarelli (JP) - Author...
KK "Hell hath no fury like a bald man sacked according to the cover of the book by the “Man who knows”. Let’s find out how much he does know let’s welcome John Pasquarelli."
JP walks in audience claps.
KK "Welcome here John."
Shakes his hand - both sit.
KK "Welcome back to Midday John"
JP "Thanks Kerri-Anne."
KK "Here we go “The Pauline Hanson story by the Man who knows”. Let’s get a few quotes that I have discovered through the book as I was reading it. Quotes describing Pauline, John, page 10, “Feline appearance reinforced by her drop shoulder hip swishing walk; page 9 you go on to describe Pauline Hanson’s sex appeal becoming evidence in the weeks after her maiden speech. I mean were you sexually attracted to her?”
JP “Well no. Put me to one side. Pauline was not my girl. I am not attacking red heads here. (looking at audience) but she wasn’t my kettle of fish.”
KK “Where is the evidence of her sexuality?”
JP (Interrupting) “Well... a lot of, a lot of ... the responses that were coming into that office and their were thousands of letters, and faxes and phone calls from men who saw Pauline as being extremely attractive. She gave the impression of being a damsel in distress with the media attacking her, all the other politicians irrespective of what side of politics they were on and a lot of men saw her as being very vulnerable and this transcended itself into a lot of letters and photographs from men saying ‘Look I am single look I have got a lot of money I sheep farm back of Burke, I want to take you out.”
KK “So there were a lot of proposals”.
JP “There were photographs, I mean at one stage of the game the office in Ipswich looked like the clearing house for Interflora. All the flowers, it was amazing.”
KK “At one stage in the book you compare Pauline Hanson to the Princess of Wales. Could you walk me through these comparisons?”
JP “Well a lot of people, aaaahhh... a lot of anti Pauline people won’t like it... well I mean those two women have a lot of things in common. They both went like that (raises two fingers) to the system as it were and that got a lot of response... in their own way they were both Di is a very beautiful woman I wouldn’t say that Pauline is beautiful but she is striking and attractive. There was that response to it and they had battles with the media both of them in one case it came to a very tragic conclusion. I think there is a very definite comparison they were both drawing off mainstream people in their community that were sick and tired of the big people in the system, the politicians, big business, the politically correct the chattering classes and I think that that is a very valid comparison.”
KK “Mmmmm... Pauline’s second appearance on Midday was a discussion we had here with Charlie Perkins you did not accompany her to the studio that day you watched it from a television set.”
JP “In Canberra yes”.
KK “Now when I asked her during the course of that interview whether she would visit an outback settlement you write that you were just terrified of this you were very worried literally willing her to say no. Why were you so worried?
JP “There was a lot of agitation at that time Kerry Anne.”
KK “This is just some of the television (interview with Perkins being displayed). Why were you so worried? Didn’t you think she could handle it?”
JP “Look there was a lot of hate mail and to take her out in to an outback situation I was really worried about something happening to her physically as time went by my fears were allayed somewhat and finally I said let’s do it as she was very keen but I was very concerned about the security side of and consulted with the proper authorities about that.”
KK “But were you worried at all about how she would handle that exposure?”
JP “No not so much that I was worried about the danger to her being to herself.”
KK “Now following my asking Pauline to do that particular story 60 Minutes heard about it and wanted to do that story and I was fascinated to read your version of those events following the Midday inhouse competition with 60 Minutes. How did you read that.”
JP “Well I found it summed itself up in one thing that people in TV will kill for ratings (giggles to himself) with all respect to your good self. I mean I was amazed at some of the telephone calls I was getting tears, and all sorts of carrying on and I told Peter Wilkinson I don’t want to be part of helping cause a civil war down at Channel 9.
KK “Well basically the story is we started the story and 60 Minutes obviously wanted the story and Pauline was going to do it with us you sold out to 60 Minutes.”
JP (Laughs) "No my lips are sealed on that you take it up I mean you are all part of the same organisation, surely you can deal with that?”
KK “I mean there wasn’t a problem, but I was also fascinated following this you say that Midday blamed me that there were tears I would just like to know who cried and what their name was.”
JP “No I am not saying anything . I will take it up with you later. I will not kiss and tell about that.”
KK “Well that’s really not fair. I mean later you say that when there was a week of discussion you say, 'I kept Pauline Hanson out of contact with these people'. I find that strange because I had quite a lot of contact with Pauline during that week. Did you not know?”
JP “No, no I mean I was getting phones from all sorts of people that week. You spoke to me too”
KK “Yes I spoke to you too but I also spoke to Pauline Hanson that week. You claim in your book that you kept her out of contact with us. That’s not true.”
JP “Generally speaking I did, her conversation with you, that was allowable.”
KK “Did you know?”
JP “She told me yes. We were having lots of calls from other members of your staff.”
KK “Why did you put in your book that you kept her out of contact with people, I thought that she kept you out of the loop.”
JP “No, no, no, no.... I meant with her I mean I set everything up with Peter Wilkinson. That wasn’t being out of the loop. Then we changed at the last moment from the outback of Australia up to Palm Island. Which is no paradox.”
KK “But she did tell you then that we spoke. So what you put in the book is incorrect.”
JP “No, no its not. Look I’m not going to be pinned down to one conversation between you and Pauline.”
KK “OK well let’s get onto the conversations that I did have with her because I had to withdraw the story because senior management ordered me to. In terms of the show you also suggest that I said in the book and you have got it in black and white here that I said “I would never have Pauline Hanson on the Midday Show again.” Where did get that, where did you get that from?”
JP: “No you told me, you told me just around here. You told me that you got badly burnt in these situations.”
KK “Now John you are sitting here telling me that I said to you that I got badly burned by Pauline Hanson.”
JP (interjecting) “Now you are going to tell me that you did not say that about Pauline Hanson I mean in those words.. I don’t know why we are going down this track.”
KK “No, you have got it in black and white in the book that I said something to you.”
JP “You did, you said to me you didn’t like having Pauline involved in these situations that you landed up getting burnt through the feedback you ..”
KK “I said that to you in this studio?”
JP “Just around here.”
KK “Was there anybody else present.”
JP “No”
KK “John you are a liar.”
JP GRUNTS “Now you shouldn’t say that. (Audience cheers and claps) Now you shouldn’t say that.”
KK “I have never ever said..”
JP (interjecting) “Anyway you’ve said it. The first time I have been called a liar like that by a woman. (audience jeers) Pauline Hanson no doubt might be following your...”
KK (interjecting) “I want to say for the record that it is completely absolutely untrue.”
JP “Alright that’s your story.”
KK “But you have got it in black and white. I mean that it is that important but I have got to live with that and I want to categorically state it was never said.”
JP “You can take another step. Sue me.”
KK “No. we won’t go into that... but what it goes down to is if you have a couple of inaccuracies in your book. (JP tries to interject) No, no this is supposed to be Pauline Hanson by the Man who Knows. She seems to have kept you out of the loop on that phone call to David Oldfield who eventually took your job I did not say that (JP interjects) I actually spoke to Pauline when you say I didn’t in the book, you say you did not know about the phone calls from David Oldfield who gazzumped you and got your job. How much is accurate?
JP (interjecting) “Let’s go back to the phone calls that were made on mobiles when I was always somewhere else. No let’s be fair and I mean I’m sticking to my story here or otherwise I wouldn’t have put it in the book. Now if you want to make this a big war between you and me look that’s your prerogative I am on your show.”
KK “But it is complete fabrication.”
(Gets very messy here)...
JP “That’s okay lots of people may decide they didn’t say things.... Ok but you call me a liar....”
KK “Yes because it is untrue. You have got a whole section on media maggots in here”
JP (interjecting) “And they are most of them.”
KK “You talk about integrity and honesty. When you talk about doing a story with us and then go for a better rating story well in business terms I understand that. It comes down to you told a fib.”
JP “You said that I told a lie.”
KK “No you told a lie - on that (the earlier comments). No but you changed your mind, what does it do to John Pasquarelli’s integrity and honesty when you change you mind.”
JP “You are attacking my integrity and doing a fairly good job on your home turf.”
KK “Listen you are in front of the camera just like me there is no difference in turf.”
JP “I will survive Kerry-Anne.”
KK “Oh, so will I. I don't think it is going to go to second press.”
JP (Looking at the audience) “She doesn’t tell you about the nice things that I said about her. Go on say the nice things I said.”
KK “No I mean that’s beside the point.”
JP (interjecting) “No I mean I said that you weren’t an airhead... lots of people in the industry said that you were.”
KK “I know I can read it... it and I want their names and addresses to.”
JP “I said you proved you certainly weren’t an airhead. That’s a great compliment coming from me.”
KK “No, I was just trying to clear up some inaccurate points. So in your terms Pauline Hanson do you still believe in her policies?”
JP “Her policies? You mean One Nation policies? Look as far as I am concerned I am sticking to my story that I set things up for Pauline and I think that it is a great shame now that the constituencies out there are starting to have serious doubts.”
KK “Mmmm but do, does John Pasquarelli still believe....”
JP (interrupts) “I still stand for the main thrust. What she stood for when I was with her”
KK “Then why do you write a whole paragraph on “How I would destroy Pauline Hanson” and dig up dirt.”
JP “It is a hypothetical argument. It is me giving unsolicited advice to John Howard. It’s a hypothetical... you know what that word means?”
STONY SILENCE....
JP “Come on... don’t say to me please explain.”
KK “Please explain. Alright I know that Pauline Hanson is controversial, always guaranteed of press, you were her ex-minder for nine months. I know that it is a commercial book it will probably sell reasonably well. Why do you want to dig dirt on her if you still believe?”
JP “You say there is dirt in there?
KK “Its not all that flattering. Even the photograph on the front is not all that flattering.”
JP “It is very flattering it shows a powerful, headstrong red headed woman who sacked me, who had me thrown out of Parliament by two policemen.”
KK “So this could be a bit of get back?”
JP “No as I said, with a name like Pasquarelli you have to be thinking in terms of a vendetta but I think that I have been balanced but people who want to buy the book and assess Pauline’s performance against my performance and now yours and see what they think of the book. Who is telling the truth of the story. It is up to the public.”
KK “There is a discussion of a movie.”
JP “I was in the movie Snowy River. I would have to play myself nobody else can play that part.”
KK “Well they would have to shave their head. Okay well thanks very much for joining us again we always have some interesting discussions.”
JP “Well I am a bit worried about today. I mean I will catch up with you.”
KK “Well I can’t help it if you tell great big fat porkies. It’s not my fault. I just want to make sure that the rest of Australian knows that it was inaccurate. I just hope that Pauline Hanson by the Man who knows something. John Pasquarelli ladies and gentlemen.”